posted November 25, 2001 09:22 PM       

silver age SATANUS is the definative SATANUS

------------------
Superheroes
Giant freaks
Tear apart the evil
To save the weak
Superheroes
Tell no lies
See all that's true
Though mutant minds

RACER X - SUPERHEROES
http://racerxband.com/

posted November 26, 2001 11:54 AM       

The Proposal was in issue Superman 314, a four parter by Marty Pasko and Swan...

Also a great three parter tale featuring a soul-searching Superman ! Superman 317-319 ! Supergirl lies to Superman in order to save Kal from... himself ??!! Great Stuff !
Covers by Neal Adams. Who said they were shallow ? Man...

Action Comics 471-473 anyone ?
All out battle with Faora and General Zod !!

Action 480-483..
AMAZO ! Nuff Said !!

Superman 296-299 are just awesome !
Suprised that many of you remembers !
Superman losing his powers...
Intergang....
Bob Oskner.... ))

Not to mention the epic Warworld, Mongul, Supergirl, Spectre stories from DC Comics Presents..

And how about those NEAL ADAMS, GARCIA LOPEZ and ROSS ANDRU covers !! Damn !! I'll take those covers ANYTIME over the modern age covers we have today !

posted November 26, 2001 03:16 PM       

quote:

---

Originally posted by India Ink:
continuing...

Tales of the Fortress was one of many short-lived back-up series in Action--and it featured Superman and Supergirl in the Fortress of Solitude, turning up some mysterious artifact or another. I liked the fact that in these tales the Fortress seemed to be fully as much Supergirl's as it was Superman's (she didn't take second place) and Superman treated her with all the respect and affection he would show to his equal (regardless of her power fluctuations over in Adventure Comics). Here we get to see the Maid of Steel in her latest fashion (a mod mini-dress) with a cute shortish coiffure.

---

posted November 26, 2001 06:28 PM    

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Progenitor:
now i know the answer but can anyone tell me what the story was with the first appearance of the sand superman, we all know its from the nuclear explosion deal but can anyone tell me one of the main supporting characters(helped superman, the story ran for a few months, like i think 9 so the supporting character isnt like jimmy or lois, but more a character of the moment, and how was the story resolved?
lets see who's really out there

---

I'm not quite sure what you're asking for here. But in terms of the resolution, in the last three issues of the storyline, it was I Ching who assisted Superman and the sand creature--although I have this funny hope that DC will soon collect the whole thing in a trade paperback and I don't want to go into details for fear of spoiling the ending!

I Ching of course was the blind Chinese gentleman and martial arts master who mentored Diana Prince (Wonder Woman without her powers wearing predominantly white mod clothing). Diana appears in these stories, but mainly as a third party, while Ching uses his mystic knowledge to aid the Men of Steel and Sand.

posted November 26, 2001 11:26 PM       

as for 317 to 319, wasnt that the stroy where superman believed that he should attend to matters on earth and let other heroes tend to the universe
so supergirl concocked some story where he and she were genetic mutatations
she ends up going into space to help battle an alien race, superman uses his supervision and sees she's in trouble, goes to help and he ends up blind for a duratation in the comic, supergirl tells superman of the hoax and blah blah, and everything is resolved

------------------
Superheroes
Giant freaks
Tear apart the evil
To save the weak
Superheroes
Tell no lies
See all that's true
Though mutant minds

RACER X - SUPERHEROES
http://racerxband.com/

posted November 27, 2001 01:42 AM    

I really believed that they were making a major change to the continuity. Everything I believed to be true about Superman was wrong!

posted November 27, 2001 02:35 PM       

I loved that story , i still reread all the time

------------------
Superheroes
Giant freaks
Tear apart the evil
To save the weak
Superheroes
Tell no lies
See all that's true
Though mutant minds

RACER X - SUPERHEROES
http://racerxband.com/

posted December 06, 2001 06:15 PM       

quote:

---

Originally posted by India Ink:
On the Mongul front: Mongul was a villain created by Jim Starlin... The stories continued from issue to issue in DCCP, in what you might call an arc--written and illustrated by Starlin (sorry I don't have the issue numbers at hand, but one of those comics did indeed feature the preview of "The New Teen Titans" by Wolfman and Perez). During this extended Starlin run Superman crossed paths with The Spectre, Green Lantern, and Martian Manhunter.

---

I LOVE the Seventies Superman.... the last few years I've been filling in holes I have in the 1972 to 1979 range of all the titles. Just today I picked up Action #'s 438 and 439 (mostly for the Atom backups).

The Mongul story arc ran from DCCP #'s 27-29, featuring Martian Manhunter, Supergirl, and the Spectre, respectively (GL was in #26, another Starlin issue, but I don't think it was connected to the Mongul story, but, it's been a whiile since I pulled it out of the pressurized comic vault... could be wrong about this...).

Didn't Neal Adams do the cover to Action #485, a tribute to the cover of Superman #233? Another poster thought some of the 1977 Superman (#'s 317-319? Memory fading fast... ) covers were his last.

One of my favorite later discoveries was the Best of DC Digest that collected most of the World of Krypton backup stories. Sure, they may lack the 'punch' some look for in storytelling, but an insight to the Pre-Crisis world.

The Action 477-478 and 480-483 issues were my first, (along with #419, a gift from afriend down the road from this then-impressionable 8 year old) and most fondly remembered issues from that era. Why?

One word: SUPERMOBILE!

Cass

posted December 06, 2001 11:04 PM       

i love that story, and also i got the got the supermobile toy,
i loved amazo in that story

i also loved the KRYPTONOID story, too cool

------------------
Superheroes
Giant freaks
Tear apart the evil
To save the weak
Superheroes
Tell no lies
See all that's true
Though mutant minds

RACER X - SUPERHEROES
http://racerxband.com/

posted December 06, 2001 11:35 PM    

The Sandman Saga was awesome--the early seventies overall were revolutionary times--and a lot of people might say that what followed was not up to that level. But I have to say MY Superman was really the one you're talking about. The Oksner inked Superman. The Superman of Maggin, Bates, and Pasko. The Schwartz and Swan Superman.

There was something about that contained world they all created. The Superman from 71-73 was in a state of becoming. But the 74-79 Superman had achieved a certain level--a level that was constantly maintained through those years. Those stories are like comfort food for my soul.

posted December 30, 2001 05:48 PM    

By doing a simple google search on the name Elliot S! Maggin, I found these cool sites.

For the fortress, try:
http://theages.superman.nu/

For "starwinds howl" itself, try:
http://superman.nu/starwinds-howl/

or:
http://superman.nu/superboy-lives/starwinds.php

or for the general superboy homepage, try:
http://superman.nu/superboy-lives/

for the Maggin homepage, try:
http://www.maggin.com/

and for the Amazing World of DC Comics, try:
http://yoner.com/awodcc

posted December 30, 2001 06:00 PM       

This is my favorite recurring thread, and I'm glad to see that Superman Thru the Ages is back on line.

posted December 30, 2001 06:39 PM    

The early seventies ones, the ones with the Sandman Saga, are rather tan and there's a little tearing around the staples. Also there's a bit of tattering at the edges of some covers. Anything with black ink on the covers usually ended up with my thumb print somewhere. And 100 page Super-Spectaculars did very badly--worse yet I often tried to tape them. There was an issue of Superman (245 or somewhere around there I think) which was a Super-Spec and it had lots of black ink on the cover (Swan and Anderson did that wrap-around cover--there was a Super Chief reprint in there).

Then I had the brilliant idea of subscribing to DC comics. Don't get me wrong--it was a great thrill when I heard the mailbox open and I'd hear that familiar thud, go racing down the stairs to pick up all my comics. But they were mailed folded in brown wrappers (which didn't cover the book completely) and sometimes the wrapper glue stuck to the comic.

But from the late seventies on (by then I had stopped subscribing) those books are in good shape, not very tan. Still several moves and keeping them in a basement apartment for some years has not been kind to my collection.

posted December 30, 2001 07:15 PM       

By Overstreet Pricing Guide standards, it sounds to me like your collection is "fair" to "very good." For a refresher on the criteria and levels, click here.

From everthing I've read, polybags are fine and won't degrade the paper unless you keep them in the same bag over 2 years.

Quick Village Idiot story: From early on in my collecting career, I took steps to keep my collection as mint as possible, trying to avoid comics with stress marks along the spine, etc. I knew I needed to bag my circa 1982 collection somehow, so I took some Glad cellophane bags and bagged each one. I figured I needed to seal them somehow, so I took the household iron and melted the slack on each bag, figuring a hermetic seal would keep them preserved prefectly, and left them this way for YEARS (at least a decade). Well, as you probably know, Glad bags are made out of the same polycellephane as comic bags today, and they and the comics degraded without my even realizing it. When about four years ago, I took the comics out of their sealed bags and was shocked to find they were tanned. The bags all had a yellow cast to them. Live and learn.

I refer to all of my post-crisis issues as "the cannon": I only buy the best near mint issues I can find and keep them in long boxes. Some debate exists as to whether commics should be kept in rows or stacked: rows are figured to be hard on the corners, while it has been suggested that stacking leads to spine rolling. (Actually, I have no idea what REALLY causes spine rolling: I have an issue from last month whose spine is beginning to roll. Maybe it's heat. (?)) The Library on Congress stacks documents it's trying to preserve, but I think keeping them in rows in acid-free long boxes is probably best.

My pre-crisis books are all "very good" to "fine." I bought some issues of Action from this era the other day to fill in a gap, and they were generally in the same condition. Maybe you remember the storyline I picked up: Satanus and his wife split Superman in half, and both Supermen half to cope with having different powers. Mostly a Wolfman story, and it's pretty cool. These comics are probably not worth that much in the long run because of their condition, but it did give me enjoyment to read them.

It probably wouldn't kill you to catalog your collection at a database like wizardworld.com. Their website is pretty nifty, letting you set up an account for free that gives you the current market value of each item in your collection, and totals it, etc. It's painful, but you gotta be honest when grading the book.

posted December 30, 2001 09:02 PM       

I know that story where Supergirl lies to Kal-el and they go off into space. They find and rescue a crystaline alien culture I believe, and Superman gives Supergirl one of the most moving speeches I have ever read in a comic book from a fictional character, at the very end of the story. Of course, he also goes blind during the course of the story. Musn't forget.

That was a brilliant story, and Supergirl was wearing my favourite outfit for her.

Sigh... you guys should not be out promoting boardwide uncontrollable nostalgia in this way.

Thanks!

posted January 05, 2002 12:17 AM    

quote:

---

Originally posted by India Ink:

Robot: At last...You nearly died...but I saved your life!
Superman: What! Why did you do a fool thing like that? I'm over a million years old...I've outlived everything and everybody I cared for! I wanted to die!

Then in a fury Superman flies off from the space station as the master healer shouts a warning against the dreaded Magnor Comet which is headed that way--"it will disintegrate everything in its path...even you!"

"That'll suit me fine!" thinks Superman, but the killer drone is on his tail, aiming to strike and kill. Just then the Magnor Comet does pass by destroying not Superman but the killer drone. The Man of Tomorrow is pulled along in the Comet's wake, reaching greater velocities than he has ever known before, crashing through the Time Barrier, until "the End of Time!" And Superman blacks out.

"For some time there is only darkness and oblivion... then the blackness lifts..." And from a subjective point of view shot we see Lara reaching out her arms above us, and Jor-El behind her. We see Superman's thought balloon but not him as he recognizes his biological parents and wonders if he's died and is now "meeting them in the next world."

But as we see in the next panel, when he tries to speak, other words than what he intended come out, "Me don't want to take nap, mommy! Me want to play with Krypto!" and we see the baby Kal-El in his mother's arms with Jor-El carrying the little pup, Krypto.

[>choke< I still find this whole scene very touching...]

Kal-El in his thoughts realizes that he is somehow reliving his life "and I can't even speak a word I didn't speak the first time!"

And so Kal-El hops from moment to moment of his existence, aware of his own experiences yet unable to act in them--as Superboy in Smallville, as Clark Kent asking Perry White for a job at the Daily Planet--until he finds himself in the Fortress of Solitude on January 12, 1970, the very day he went off into the future never to return. But the bubble has already left (Superman has already left in the time bubble, and yet he is here now in the Fortress)--"But how?"

And Superman theorizes..."Many scientists believe that time curves back on itself... that somewhere the past and future meet. Well I've just proved it! I traveled so far into the future, I reached my own past! And I got a second chance, just as I gave Earth a second chance in the future!"

The End

---

It strikes me that this epic time-travelling 3 parter (Action Comics Nos. 385-387 Feb.-Apr., 1970) was the last great saga of the Weisinger era. The story brought that Superman to a conclusion and inaugurated a new (70s) Superman. Had such a story been done in the last sixteen years it would be viewed as a milestone of major consequence--if not a "Crisis" then at least a "Zero Hour," "Return to Krypton," or "Our Worlds at War." Because of the ending.

Cary Bates had to know that Weisinger was soon retiring--perhaps Bates wanted to write one last great adventure about THAT Man of Tomorrow, before new editors took over the legacy with who knew what possible changes.

And the ending leaves us with a temporal paradox--where 60s Superman has departed for his fate in the farflung future, 70s Superman remains behind.

70s Superman is 60s Superman to the extent that he shares some of the Weisinger legacy. But as the 70s unfolded we would see that editors and writers screened out some parts of the legend, tweaked or modified other parts, and then expanded on those aspects that interested them most.

In this task of myth-making there is one individual who is easily overlooked, but should never be discounted. That person is ENB.

posted January 05, 2002 12:57 AM    

But it is as editor of many Giants and Super-Spectaculars--including most of the Superman family titles--that we should consider the Big E. here.

We tend not to think about reprints when considering a particular era. It's as if they don't exist. Only the "new" material counts. Yet when I was a kid I made no distinction between what was "old" and what was "new." It was all new to me.

What's more, I would gladly buy the reprints (sometimes they were better than the original material)--in the 60s you could get 80 pages for a quarter as compares with 32 regular pages for 12 cents; in the earlier 70s you could get 100 pages for four bits as compares with 32 regular pages for two dimes. The Giants and Super-Specs appeared on the same stands in amongst the regular size books. There was no "wall" between reprints and regular comics as there seems to be today. Today, reprints are packaged in high end books, and even when a facsimile 80 or 100 pager appears it's packaged to look different from the regular comics.

In the early sixties, when the Giants first appeared, they were Annuals and numbered as such. Then they were 80 page Giants and numbered as such (G-1, G-2, G-3, ...), but soon enough they became part of the regular run of a title--Superman 196 was a regular size issue, 197 (G-36) was 80 pages, 198 went back to regular size. Same deal with the Super-Specs--they started out with their own numbering as a separate run (DC-1, DC-2, DC-3), but soon became part of the run of each title--Superman 244 is a regular 48 pager, 245 is 100 pages (all reprints), 246 is back to a regular 48 pages.

Did I say 48 pages???

Yup. In 1971 and 1972, DC was printing all their regular books in a 48 page size (52 pages if you count the covers). The books were filled out by putting 12-16 pages of reprint material in them.

As he had been responsible for the Giants and Super-Specs (for the Superman family, but increasingly for other titles as well), Bridwell had the duties thrust upon him of finding reprint stories that would fill out those 48 pagers.

And while the Giants of old mainly stuck with 50s and 60s stories, in the early seventies readers were treated to a lot of rare tales from the 40s and even the 30s.

In the Superman title itself, Bridwell mainly selected Superman stories from either 1940-47 or 1958-66. While with the remaining family titles, tales of family members were mostly selected from the 60s or late 50s.

Then with the April-May, 1974, issue (No. 164), Superman's Pal, Jimmy Olsen, was now Superman Family--a 100 page book (including covers and ads) that usually spotlighted one family member in the lead all-new story, but filled the rest of its pages with reprint tales selected by Bridwell (although Murray Boltinoff and Joe Orlando shared the official editing chair).

Eventually the size of Superman Family shrank, and then with the March-April, 1977, issue (No. 182) it became a Dollar Comic featuring all-new material. But during that period of reprints, Bridwell was able to choose the stories he wanted--those that best exemplified the Superman world.

----

posted January 05, 2002 07:58 AM    

quote:

---

Originally posted by KEV-EL:
garithebari, Check out the Sandman Saga, Circa 1971... It ran from Superman 233 through 242...

It was probably one of the best Superman stories EVER written in any era...

For more info on that GREAT story check this site:
http://theages.superman.nu/History/SandSaga.html

I think you'll really like it!!!

---

For the record, this page has moved to

http://theages.superman.nu/History/SandSaga.html