| Author | Topic: Superman in the 70s |
| twb Member |
 posted July 30,
2002 10:41 PM 
WOW! I've been away from this topic for too long! [It's the comics era of my youth... Most especially the 1974-1979 stories.] And for those who hate the 70's Superman, well, that's your opnion… ------------------ IP: Logged |
| twb Member |
posted July 30,
2002 10:49 PM
quote: I'm watching a Seinfeld rerun: the Bizarro episode… IP: Logged |
| Aldous Member |
posted July 31,
2002 02:36 AM
http://theages.superman.nu/tales2/whotook/aboutspeced.html In the reproduction of the panel just before Clark tips the dinner table on Steve, the website shows Lois wearing a low-cut dress and a pendant. In my comic, Lois is wearing a collar, and what appears to be a scarf at her throat. The dress Lois shows up in to cook Clark dinner three pages later is a different set of clothing to that earlier dinner scene (but is still not the dress from the panel on the website).
quote: The line in my comic is, "Hiya, Lois -- another new get-up, huh?" Obviously J.S. had the earlier panels re-drawn so that Lois was, in fact, wearing a different dress the next day. Actually, in my comic, there are three get-ups involved. One when Clark tips the table over on Steve, another when Lois is standing at Clark's apartment door, and a third when Steve sees Lois the next day. Elliot was well within his rights to be furious.
quote: I admire Elliot for taking this kind of action. I happen to love this whole saga. The scenes where Clark stands up to Edge are hilarious! Then, after we see Steve slumped to the floor of the elevator, nursing a sore head, Clark reveals Pa taught him how to box! A revelation indeed... IP: Logged |
| Aldous Member |
posted July 31,
2002 03:10 AM
Exhibit A:
quote: Exhibit B:
quote: You can't have it both ways. I think Superman, being the supreme giant who strides through the superhero comic book world, needs a stable foundation. He needs regularity and parameters. Maggin & Bates, with the "Who Took The Super..." saga, did wonders with the Superman mythos, while still maintaining that foundation, and while staying more or less within those parameters. IP: Logged |
| India
Ink Member |
posted July 31,
2002 02:41 PM
Aldous, you're absolutely right. I am self-contradicting. Yet this is my problem--I want to have it both ways. I know I can't, but that doesn't stop me wanting... During those days, I wanted the envelope to be pushed. And maybe I even wanted the envelope to be tossed aside. Too late, I realized that pushing it too far sacrificed the thing I loved about Superman. We got some great stories as the seventies progressed, but we also lost a lot of the charm of those stories from '72-'75. Bates and Maggin can't have it both ways either. In the interview I referenced a while back, from 1974 in AWODDCC no. 2, they're talking about how Superman comics should be targetted at kids. It's just wrong in their view to write these stories for a mature audience. And yet on the other hand, when Maggin (writing in 1975) pushes a more mature subtext, Schwartz intercedes. Maggin can't have it both ways. The trick is to manage that fine balance--to push things a bit, but not too far beyond the parameters of the character. For a time the balance of young enthusiasm, on the part of twenty-somethings Bates and Maggin, and age and experience, on the part of Schwartz and Swan, served Superman well. Schwartz was an ass to come down too hard on Elliot--risking that he might crush Maggin's adventurous spirit (turning E.S!M. into one of those comics-writing drones who just pump out what's expected)--but Maggin was a sensitive artiste who made an overly dramatic exit. When you're in your twenties, four years seems like a long time--I'm sure Elliot thought himself ever so wise and experienced. When you're in your fifties (as Schwartz probably was), four years seems hardly enough time to learn anything, and Julie probably thought Magoon was still wet behind the ears and needed to grow a bit as a writer. But you're right, Aldous, we need a foundation, we need parameters. To this day, the action in 297 between Clark and Lois affects me. Because these characters are true to themselves. They have a foundation. Yet, I know that Clark and Lois got married, consumated their love, etc.--so why should I be quite so affected by Superman 297, in this day and age? Because by the time of the nineties stories the foundation and the parameters were gone. In the seventies I was aware of all the constraints on the characters, thus their actions were all the more meaningful. Whereas, in the nineties I knew that there were no constraints, no parameters, so the nineties stories had no considerable impact for me. IP: Logged |
| India
Ink Member |
posted July 31,
2002 06:34 PM
Continuing in the Spirit of '76 Superman, there a few other changes that greeted the new year. Green Arrow was the back-up in Action 458 (scripted by Maggin), but thereafter the back-ups were Superman family related. IP: Logged |
| India
Ink Member |
posted July 31,
2002 06:55 PM
Yikes--sorry, I mistakenly hit submit--as I was saying...the back-ups in Action. In 459 there was a story in which Clark meets the Greatest boxing champion of the world. A thinly disguised version of Ali, but not the real Ali. At this time Neal Adams was working on his 72 page story, but it would be almost two years before he'd finish it (meanwhile Curt Swan was pencilling about 365 pages of art a year). This tale is by ENB and Swoksner. Next ish, 460, has a Jonathan Ross and Mxyzptlk story--Jon Ross was certainly getting a lot of attention these days--by Maggin and Schaffenberger. A beauty of a story just for Kurt's work. And then in 461, the back-up is a Perry White story, miserably inked by Blaisdell, with no writer credit that is visible, pencilled by Swan, with Bob Rozakis as "cub editor." Meanwhile in the two-part Blackrock story that led off issues 458 and 459, Lola Barnett has jumped ship from GBS to UBC. Morgan Edge is quite angry at his former employee, someone he took from obscurity and gave national attention, and will not have Clark mention her name in his presence. Was Maggin already thinking about the consequences of leaving Schwartz? Did he channel that emotion for this story? At the same time in the Blackrock story, Edge makes Clark an assistant producer on the news. This doesn't really seem to have a lot of consequence for the stories. It's something that Maggin seems to have felt was an important move, as he spends time elaborating on Clark's function as a.p. in his first Superman novel (The Last Son of Krypton)--but other writers didn't use it much. IP: Logged |
| ManofTheAtom Member |
posted July 31,
2002 06:59 PM 
My biggest nightmare comes from the Superman in the 70's tp. Archie Bunker and the cast of All in the Family! urgh... Let's all thank Byrne for Man of Steel!!! ------------------ IP: Logged |
| India
Ink Member |
posted July 31,
2002 07:20 PM
Associate producer--I should've said. Clark was an associate producer (like Mary Richards), Bob Rozakis was an assistant editor. One of the reasons I thought the Out of Superman Saga was gonna go on longer was the approaching 300th issue. When Out of Superman started, I thought this all building to a big story in the 300th issue. So it was a bit of a surprise to have it end in 299. "Superman 2001" is a "tricentennial" celebration which takes the form of an imaginary story (just as the 200th issue was an imaginary story). This one asks the question, "What if Superman's rocket landed on Earth today?" (Today being 1976). And so it follows the results, as the two super-powers compete to get the rocket and the baby inside. The U.S. military wins, and brings up the little boy, who is called Skyboy. When the U.S.S.R. finds out that the U.S. has been hiding the alien child as a secret weapon, a third power manipulates the cold war enemies into a third world war. Skyboy flies into action to stop the weaponry that would destroy the world. Kal-El then decides to abandon the Skyboy identity and escape into an ordinary human life--feeling that his presence in the world as a super-powered being is too much for humanity, they are not yet ready for such a being in their lives. And so he becomes Clark Kent, anchorman on a 24-hour news channel, stationed in Metropolis (one large city made up of many eastern seaboard cities). But this third power creates a fake alien being called Moka who claims to be the one who averted world war III. Clark knows that Moka is just a robotic fake, and so he must become Superman to reveal the false saviour. There is much in this story that has a spiritual/mythological/religious sense to it. In the end Superman reveals himself as the great saviour of humanity. The people regard him as the best of themselves, what they could be if only they tried. The artwork by Swan and Oksner is simply the best that they ever did. It's probably true that Terry Austin (or Bob Wiacek) had a lot to do with making the futuristic cityscapes so magical, but even given that, Oksner's work on the foreground is just as great. Truly an admirable work. No wonder I bought three copies when it first came out. For this June 1976 issue, extra room was made to accomodate the story which runs at a staggering 20 pages! Okay, not staggering, but most stories were 18 pages and would soon be 17 pages--so getting two extra pages was nothing to sneeze at. The letterpage was forced out as a result. And Bob Rozakis is credited as "co-editor" not just assistant editor, which is quite something (Schwartz, of course, being credited as "editor"). But like Jerry Seinfeld, I'm tempted to wonder--"Where are the moving sidewalks? It's 2002, already, and still no moving sidewalks? What gives?" IP: Logged |
| Aldous Member |
posted August 01,
2002 01:23 AM
quote: Is that a Private Life of Clark Kent story where the champ has been kidnapped? And at the end the champ KOs the kidnapper? I have that story... I seem to recall the champ made up a rhyme for Clark, or about Clark... and Steve was a bit miffed that milksop Kent now had a champion boxer for a buddy. But this champ didn't seem like a virtual Muhammad Ali. He had the rhyme, but that's about all. He seemed too dignified and good-mannered... he was more like a Frazier. IP: Logged |
| twb Member |
posted August 01,
2002 02:02 AM
When Clark and Lois 'made out' that first time I [at the tender age of 12] remember thinkinh that this was really grown-up stuff! Artwise it was Swan-Oskner at their best. The backgrounds by Terry Austin and Bob Wiacek usually had familiar names and inside jokes that made them that much more interesting to examine.
quote:
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| India
Ink Member |
posted August 01,
2002 02:36 PM
Yes Aldous, the TPLOCK story in 459 is the one where the champ is kidnapped. I assumed from the rhyming that Bridwell intended us to think of Ali, but the boxing champ doesn't really act much like Ali. He could just as easily be Frazier or Foreman. Although I'd say that the Swoksner art makes him look more like Ali than the other two. IP: Logged |
| India
Ink Member |
posted August 01,
2002 07:18 PM
I said that the Perry White back-up in Action 461 (July, 1976) was "miserably inked by Blaisdell" and I stand by that assertion. But the concern of this little six pager is the Depression era misadventures of would-be cub-reporter Perry White. And given that context, and given that Blaisdell worked on "Little Orphan Annie," there is something about the messy art that reminds me of another time. The only other Perry White as cub-reporter in the Depression (or 1920s?) that I remember is one illustrated by Wayne Boring and reprinted in a Giant back in the 60s (probably originally from the 50s). In that much longer story, Superman goes back in time and meets would-be cub reporter Perry and pretends to be a member of Al Capone's gang. [Both of these stories make me think of a Silver Agent story from Busiek's Astro City.] It may be that Blaisdell wasn't at all good at doing super-hero inks--but his talents might have better served in other genres. I'll get back to that in a moment. While the Bicentennial Man of Tomorrow had a Bates-Maggin imaginary future in the 300th issue of his own mag, cover-dated June, 1976--in that same month over in Action began yet another four-parter, this one written solo by Bates. The basic premise of this Spirit of '76 Superman four-parter had a super-powerful alien, Karb Brak, who was slowly dying by exposure to his fellow super-powerful aliens. To save him, he was sent away from his home planet in the Andromeda system, to Earth in the Milky Way system, where there were no super-powerful beings who would kill him. And there he assumes human form and calls himself Andrew Meda. But of course, Superman is living on Earth (in fact in the same city of Metropolis) and so Karb Brak/Andrew Meda starts to get sick again. In the full length 17 page conclusion of this four-parter ("Die Now, Live Later," issue 463, Sept 1976--which would have come out on the stands just before the big July 4th Bicentennial celebrations), to get rid of Superman's killing effect, Karb Brak sends Clark Kent back in time to 1776 Philadelphia. There Karb Brak's psionic mechinations have changed Clark's mind and made him into a reporter working for Benjamin Franklin. Just prior to this issue, DC released a tabloid sized Limited Collector's Edition (Aug.-Sept. '76, C-47). This one had the title on its cover announcing "Superman Salutes the Bicentennial." The cover was actually a Shuster-esque pic from the 1940s, showing Superman with an eagle on his arm and the American shield behind him. As with most DC tabloids, I ordered this one through the mail. I was fully expecting to read a bunch of great old Superman stories with a patriotic theme. Instead, what I got was a two page intro (titled "The Spirit of 1776" newly illustrated by Curt Swan (pencil and ink) featuring Superman, while the remainder of the book was all reprints of old Tomahawk stories by Fred Ray, with some historical full-page pics by Ray of American Revolutionary history. I was quite disappointed in this purchase. But still, Fred Ray was some illustrator--although his Tomahawk has that old-fashioned simplistic look, the historical pics are amazing examples of pen and ink illustration. The tabloid edition even said that some of Ray's historical illustrations were in the Smithsonian. So yeah, the guy knew his American Revolution. Looking at the otherwise forgettable conclusion of the Karb Brak four-parter in Action 463, one is stunned by the illustration as it represents details of the American Revolution. I'm willing to bet a dozen Tim Horton donuts that Swan and Blaisdell studied Ray's work intently to get just the right historical references for their story. When looked at it as super-hero art, these pages may seem all wrong. But looked at as a different genre of art, these pages are perfection. This is probably the best thing Blaisdell did during his term as a Superman inker. My only complaint--there's too little of this. This is the pay-off of the Karb Brak plotline--an otherwise not very inspired story which simply motivates the conclusion, Clark Kent in 1776. In hindsight, I think it would have been better if the 1776 scenes had been spread over the last two issues. It's a real kick to see Clark hanging out in Philadelphia in 18th century britches, waistcoat, and swallow-tail jacket. IP: Logged |
| India
Ink Member |
posted August 01,
2002 07:29 PM
Another Bicentennial feature was the Bicentennial giveaway. At the top of all July and July-August issues of DC comics (but not tabloids) was a red, white and blue banner that read "DC Comics Salutes the Bicentennial" and then a number (1-33). An ad inside these comics told us that if we collected 25 of these banners (25 different numbers) from the 33 titles, and sent them into National Periodical Publications on or before July 4th, 1976, we would get FREE a metal Superman belt buckle "(in antiqued silver finish!)" Looking at the 33 titles listed in this ad, I figure that I bought about 23 of them (and still have all of them)--two more and I could've gotten that belt buckle. But of course I wouldn't have cut up the covers of these comics--so I'd would've had to buy 25 extra copies ($7.50). IP: Logged |
| India
Ink Member |
posted August 01,
2002 08:03 PM
Continental Op Member posted June 15, 2002 04:18 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SUPERMAN #301 (July, 1976) "Solomon Grundy WINS On a Monday!" Writer: Gerry Conway Artists: Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez and Bob Oksner ---------------------------------------------------------------- Op posted extensively on this story on page 16 of this thread. I urge anyone and everyone to go back to that page and read his review. As such I won't have too much to say about the actual story--and a lot of what Op goes on to say is more or less the theme of my posts on the Spirit of '76 Superman. By the way this was one of those issues with a "DC Comics Salutes the Bicentennial" cover banner (no. 9 in the set). This comic made me very nervous. Picture it--the last five issues have had great Bates/Maggin/Swan/Oksner stories. The last issue was the 300th milestone. Superman comics have been going along really good for the last few years. I'm quite happy with my little comics world. Then 301 and No Bates No Maggin No Swan. Thankfully there was Oksner. But No SWAN!!!!! I was very nervous. Conway's writing was a bit off in its spirit. This wasn't quite Superman. And there was the promise in this story that the new criminal gang, Skull, would appear in future issues. There were all the earmarks of a new direction in this issue. And Garcia Lopez! I was shaking in my boots. Swan was gone, and Garcia Lopez had taken over and might be the new permanent artist on the title for all I knew. And what really made me nervous was that art. It was great! I could see a legion of readers turning away from Swan and embracing this bright new talent. If the art had been bad, I think I wouldn't have been so nervous. Then readers would've cried out against Swan's replacement. But given how good this Jose Luis Garcia Lopez was, I could see all those faithless readers soon forgetting about good ol' Curt. For me, it wasn't about how good the art was. Neal Adams, Garcia Lopez, Gil Kane--none of those guys, no matter how great they were--could ever replace my guy, Curt Swan. He was the Superman artist. And without him it just wouldn't be my Superman. In the end it turned out that I needn't have worried about Curt--not at that moment in history--he did come back in issue 303. But I was right to be nervous. 301 was, indeed, the beginning of a new direction, although in the end it would turn out that neither Conway, nor Garcia Lopez, nor Oksner would take us in that new direction. More than this though, 301 was a glimpse of a far distant future. I've
always felt that Garcia Lopez established the look for Superman that so
many artists followed in the 1990s (Jurgens, Gammil, Barreto--these guys
are all the offspring of JLGL). And the Marvel style Superman writers of
the eighties and nineties, they are in the tradition of Conway. IP: Logged |
| twb Member |
posted August 01,
2002 11:27 PM
You're so right. quote:
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| Aldous Member |
posted August 02,
2002 12:34 AM
quote: Permit me to expand on your brief summary of this story, which is really rather good. One of the pleasing aspects of this story is that the Maggin-Bates team (and I suspect it was more Maggin than Bates) did away with that absurd Super-Baby talk, like, "Me am hungry." When I first read "Superman, 2001," that year seemed impossibly far off. (I had similar feelings when I briefly collected the British comic 2000AD.) But -- here we are, and then some! Kal-El is sent to Earth by rocket, and arrives February 29, 1976 (which was then present day). This updated arrival is a little different to the old story, in that baby Kal-El is tracked by satellites, predicting the little UFO will splash down in international waters. The United States and the USSR both race to be first to get to the alien craft. Each country's navy arrives simultaneously, and helicopters literally jostle for position as the spacecraft floats in the sea. There is a fatal collision, and one man survives to swim to the rocket: Thomas Clark, who claims the rocket for the United States. At a top secret base, military engineers try to cut open the space ship, to no avail. But then a hatch slides open and out comes Kal-El. He says, "I am hungry!" (Thankfully, he didn't say, "Me am hungry." After all, this is the most highly evolved human mind on the planet, with the possible exception of Lex Luthor.) The kid flies off through a wall and raids the commissary, chewing through enough food to feed a platoon. Maybe Kal isn't so smart after all, as he notes that the military men "speak American." (Actually, it's English.) The kid was taught Earth languages by machines in the rocket. This top secret part of the military, headed by General Kent Garrett, takes the Pa and Ma Kent role, working out Kal's powers, making him a super suit from the alien blankets, and bringing him up. The general gave Kal the "S" symbol we all know and love because he has code-named the kid "Skyboy." Meanwhile, news of an alien child has the perpetually inept U.N. in an uproar. Other countries want to get their hands on the kid. "He belongs to ALL nations, not just ONE!" The USSR, along with other nations, want desperately to prevent the "American Indoctrination" of the alien child. Years pass. In 1990, the President of the U.S.A. confirms to the world the existence of an alien child, a child who is now around 14 Earth years old. The Russians demand that the kid be exposed to the world and made a ward of the United Nations. A third nation uses the long-standing poor relations between America and Russia (mainly due to the alien child dispute) to trick each super-power into thinking the other is initiating a nuclear attack. World War III begins as nuclear missiles are loosed on the world. General Garrett, who has plainly become a sort of foster-father of the boy, explains to Skyboy what is happening. The kid flies off, and in a series of incredible super-feats, single-handedly stops missiles, chemical warfare, and other major weapons from ever hitting their targets. "Something just won't let the world blow itself up -- and I think I know what that something is!" thinks the General. "By all that's holy, even I didn't think he could pull it off!" The world quickly learns of what Skyboy has done, but the kid has completely disappeared. The leaders of the U.S.A. and Russia forge a new friendship in the wake of a narrowly-averted atomic war. General Garrett has succumbed to the strain of the near-catastrophe, and at his funeral is someone nobody has seen before, "Clark Kent." A tearful Kent decides to never use his super-powers again. He feels he was the cause of the international tensions that led to war. Kent throws the suitcase containing the super-suit into the ocean. (This really is a great story! I'm enjoying reading it while writing a summary.) Years pass, and now it is 2001. No one has seen or heard of Skyboy ever again, although Clark Kent has become (surprise-surprise) a famous anchorman on the Tri-Vision Planetwide News. A late bulletin on the news reveals "Moka," a super-powerful humanoid creature lording it over Times Square, "revealing" he is the alien child, now grown, who averted World War III in 1990. Now Moka demands the allegiance of the peoples of Earth, and declares himself the "saviour" of mankind. Moka is an android cooked up by that shifty third power who helped kick off the war. Through worship of the saviour, they hope to control humanity. (Not unlike our present-day religions, hmm?) Kent is appalled. He walks in deep thought and finds himself atop a cliff overlooking the ocean. This is the place where he tossed away his super suit all those years ago. "Somehow I knew that I couldn't escape my destiny! I was never meant to hide behind the clothes of an ordinary man!" Kent dives into the sea, and Superman blasts out into the sky. The people of Earth are horrified to see their hero, Moka, who stopped World War III, attacked, and they cheer for him to vanquish the guy in the red and blue suit. But Superman knocks Moka into a million pieces of scrap metal and tells the "gullible fools" to wise up. Superman leaves the people suitably scolded, but also inspired and awestruck at his power. End. ***** The scene where Kent dives into the ocean to emerge as Superman still gives me a tingle! IP: Logged |
| India
Ink Member |
posted August 02,
2002 05:23 PM
Thanks Aldous. Since I'm trying to do an overview of that year more than one specific story I've had to give less attention than I'd like to certain issues that remain well-loved in my heart. But I was hoping that others would jump in with more expansive reviews of these treasured tales. Which, thankfully you've done. I also was happy to see that baby Kal-El (actually I make him to be about four years old by the time he arrives on Earth) speaks flawless English, as well he should--in addition to other languages, although (as I think was pointed out by one reader in the lettercolumn that featured comment on this issue) Kal-El's French is a bit weak. He says, "Je suis faim!" which I believe translates as "I am hunger" (I think the correct French is "J'ai faim"--"I have hunger"). There is so much good about the Swan and Oksner art in this story, that's it's almost impossible to pick out one scene--but I'd have to say that that scene, where Clark stands above the water and then dives in and re-emerges as Superman is a great favourite. Re-reading that sequence the other day gave me goose bumps. There's a kind of timing to this story that's like a screenplay. Clark becoming Superman at that moment is like the big scene that everyone in the audience is waiting for. IP: Logged |
| India
Ink Member |
posted August 02,
2002 06:02 PM
quote:
Sofar as I can tell it's hard to say for sure which was the last Bates-Maggin story from the Superman comics of this era, but it looks like it might've been "Bride of the Stars" in the June-July 1976 issue of Superman Family (no. 177, co-edited by Schwartz and Boltinoff), an 18 page Supergirl story perfectly illustrated by Kurt Schaffenberger, plotted by Bates, and scripted by Maggin. While the last credited solo Maggin effort appears to be in issue 302 of Superman, cover dated August 1976. In that one, Jose Luis Garcia Lopez returned for the second issue in a row, again ably inked by Oksner, in a story that pitted Superman against Luthor and guest-featured The Atom. All of these attributes make it a nice enough story, although it's not the greatest work that Maggin ever did and hardly a satisfying farewell. And as Maggin's name made its last appearance in a Superman comic for a long while, another name made its last appearance in the indicia. In the indicia of the August issues of Action & Superman (nos. 462 & 302) and the Aug.-Sept. issue of Superman Family (no. 178), Carmine Infantino is credited as the publisher of National Periodical Publications. In the indicia of the September issues of Action & Superman (nos. 463 & 303) and the October issue of Superman Family (179), a new person is named as the publisher--Jenette Kahn! Warner Communications had bought National Periodical Publications, and one of their first moves was to axe Infantino and replace him with their own candidate for the job. There would be cosmetic changes--the DC bullet of that period (The Line of *DC* Superstars bullet) would be soon replaced by a new bullet--the current DC bullet. And there would be structural changes--Kahn as publisher, editor Joe Orlando kicked upstairs to Managing Editor, while Vince Colletta was the art director; three people doing the jobs that once were all covered by Infantino. And there would be creative changes. Meanwhile in the actual story from Superman 303 ("Where Lightning Strikes-Thunder Kills"), Gerry Conway returned, and the Swan and Oksner team were brought back together. Conway re-used his badly named villain, Whirlicane, from Action 457 (the Jon Ross story), and introduced a new character who would have an interesting life in the Superman books--Dr. Albert Michaels, director of S.T.A.R. Perhaps more importantly, this is the first issue to pick up on the
aftermath of the Out of Superman Saga--especially issue 297. While Clark
seems to have put those incidents behind him, Lois clearly hasn't
forgotten their night of passion. The story ends with Clark showing up at
Ms. Lane's apartment door, and the two having a candle-lit Beef Bourguinon
dinner. IP: Logged |
| Aldous Member |
posted August 03,
2002 01:38 AM
quote:
quote: It's a curious thing. Even though "Superman, 2001" is an "imaginary" story, and sees Kal-El brought up by the United States military, the Superman of this story is unmistakeably SUPERMAN. We both agree that scene is a spine-tingler... it was beautifully written and superbly drawn, and they pulled it off remarkably well. It has exactly the desired effect. Even now, maybe 25 years after I first read it, that scene still has its power. Post-Crisis, I've seen attempts at recapturing this sort of thrilling, spine-tingling moment when Superman sort of "re-asserts" what he is and what he's about, but the attempts always come off as feeble. It just doesn't ring true. When it's poorly done, it makes me wince. When it's done well, as in "Superman, 2001" by Maggin, Bates, Swan and Oksner, it's a piece of great (and economical) storytelling that will stand the test of time. One day, if I give that story to my grandkids to read, they will still feel that "spine-tingle". I'm afraid a lot of latter-day Superman material will not stand the test of time. If you have any insights into what the differences are, I'd be glad to hear them. But if not, no matter. I feel the way I feel, and that's good enough for me. The Superman of "Superman, 2001" was in evidence a lot during the 70s. Far from being a bland decade as far as Superman comics are concerned, I think the 70s creators really captured something about Superman that has since been lost. The Superman of "Superman, 2001" is the sort of man who deserves his power, and who makes you feel very safe... I couldn't imagine feeling safe if anyone but the 70s Superman had that sort of power. These are personal feelings of mine about Superman, but I hope you can go some way to understand what I'm trying to say. IP: Logged |
| India
Ink Member |
posted August 03,
2002 05:52 PM
I hear what you're saying Aldous, and I have to agree. Somehow this Superman really is Superman--it's hard to explain and maybe it's just a prejudice of my generation. He's a grounded character, certain in who he is. With later manifestations of the Man of Steel, in the attempt to render a character who has flaws and doesn't really know what to do with himself, writers have thrown out that basic sense of the character. Another thing is the art. While I admire both Shuster and Boring, their Superman didn't show his pupils much. Was it Kieth Giffen who said we shouldn't see Superman's pupils? But with Swan, we look into Kal-El's eyes. For me the whole thing about Curt's art is in the way he drew the eyes. It was like you were looking into Superman's soul. And there was light there! Those eyes told me that this was a strong and noble being. Anyhow this is a topic I could go on about ad nauseum, and I doubt I would ever come to any clear insights about it. So I won't try to explain it. IP: Logged |
| Aldous Member |
posted August 03,
2002 10:29 PM
quote: They failed to see the flaws that were already there, built into the character. Superman's need to maintain an "ordinary man" identity, for one. (In that great novel, Miracle Monday, Elliot Maggin refers to Clark Kent, at one point, as Superman's personal demon.)
quote: Nicely put. IP: Logged |
| India
Ink Member |
posted August 06,
2002 06:43 PM
Continuing in [b]The SPIRIT of '76 SUPERMAN (The Bicentennial Man of Tomorrow) [b]... Something I should have mentioned sooner-- When Warner Communications bought National Periodical Publications (I think this happened in 1975, but I haven't checked the data on this yet) they announced that they would spend millions of dollars on a new Superman movie. The large budget for a motion picture was unheard of at this time--any producers that dared to spend that much on a film usually ended up with a giant flop on their hands. Names of box-office superstars were floated as possibly filling the super suit--Burt Reynolds, Robert Redford... Meanwhile...Neal Adams was campaigning for creators' rights. And there were no better poster children for the creator rights campaign than Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster. Publisher Carmine Infantino had struggled with his bosses at National to cut some sort of deal for Siegel & Shuster. But the creators of Superman continued to come up against a hard legal wall. Now with the big money being talked up for a new Superman movie and Warners' ownership of National, Siegel & Shuster finally took their case to the media. The heart breaking tale of the guys who created Superman was splashed across all the pages--all over North America. The heartless bastards at National and Warner were revealed for the cold unfeeling corporate leviathans they truly were. When Canadians read of how one of our native sons had been spat out by the American Dream Machine--it touched a chord with the nation. Near blind Joe Shuster struggling to get by, while American stock holders got rich off of his creation. This was the stuff of Canadian morality tales--a sad truth of what happens when you go south. The black image in the press was a PR disaster for Warner. And they quickly moved to cut some sort of deal with the creators of Superman, to save their investment from going south. So a modest pension was settled upon Siegel and Shuster. Another aspect of the settlement appeared in the July issues of Action & Superman (461 & 301). Below the familiar Superman logo on the splash pages appeared the credit "Created by Jerry Siegel & Joe Shuster." At last. After nearly 30 years of deprivation and hardship, the boys got their credit back. Some might say it was too little too late, but at least it was something, more than a lot of other creators ever got in their lifetimes. IP: Logged |
| India
Ink Member |
posted August 06,
2002 07:00 PM
Making bold with The SPIRIT of '76 SUPERMAN (The Bicentennial Man of Tomorrow)... A few random features of DC Comics at this time-- Around then a new feature page appeared in random comics--"The Daily Planet," which featured news about upcoming comics, new creators, DC Trivia, Direct Currents, Lola Barnett's gossip--much of this written by Bob Rozakis. A continuing series of public servic ads appeared in the comics of the time, called "And Justice For All Includes Children." Superman was the main character (with a bunch of youngsters) in all of these PSAs. Continuity Associates and Curt Swan both donated panels for this project. Continuity Associates was a loose association of artists, led by Neal Adams--and including at times Dick Giordano, Terry Austin, Bob Wiacerk--and also (I believe) Mike Nasser, Pat Broderick, Josef Rubinstein, and (maybe) Rich Buckler. These panels by Continuity looked like Neal Adams art, but it's safe to say that a number of hands worked on the panels. This studio would later handle the inking on Neal Adams' Superman vs. Muhammad Ali. After Jenette Kahn ascended to the position of publisher, she had a series of "Publishorials" in the DC comics of the day, hyping the sweeping changes at the funnybook company. And ads for Hostess baked goods were featured in these comics--with various costumed characters from the Line of Superstars delighting in real fruit fillings and moist cakes. IP: Logged |
| India
Ink Member |
posted August 06,
2002 07:55 PM
Concluding the The BICENTENNIAL MAN of TOMORROW (or The Spirit of '76 Superman): With most regular-sized DCs running a total of only 17 pages in story, multi-part stories seemed to become the rule rather than the exception. In Action, as 5 or 6 pages might be given over to a back-up story, that only left about 11 or 12 pages for the lead story. After the Karb Brak four-parter, Action 464 - 466 featured a three parter (by the usual team of Bates/Swan/Blaisdell), with Lex Luthor fooling Superman into thinking that The Flash and Batman had turned into children--and then fooling Superman into turning himself into a child. Gerry Conway handled the next short tale in 467--about the only distinguishing feature of this story being the introduction of yet another fictional country (the Balkan country of Boratavia). Then 468 - 470 (coverdated Feb. - April '77, but the Feb. and March issues were copyrighted '76 and released in '76) contained a Bates three-part Terra Man story, with Gregory Reed in a supporting role, while Flash and GL showed up for the concluding chapter. It's worth noting that continuity is often contradictory on Gregory Reed (who becomes more and more a fictional version of Christopher Reeve, although originally based on George Reeves), since it would seem that he was made to be an exact double for Superman, but then in stories like this one he isn't an exact double--he wears a life-like mask to complete the Superman appearance.
304 has Gerry Conway using Jonathan Ross again. And Albert Michaels of STAR also appears (a kind of J. Jonah Jameson character type). This one has the Parasite in it. And the good old team of Swan and Oksner handle the art. Swan and Oksner were back for 305 and 306, too (Nov. & Dec. '76), but this was the spectacular debut of Martin Pasko on a lead Superman story. And what a story. The return of the original Toyman as a murderous criminal seeking revenge on Superman. Bizarro Superman No. 1 as the moronic monster he was originally created to be. In this one story Pasko displays a clear knowledge of Superman history, yet a willingness to push the legend forward and give it some edge. Then in the January '77 Superman 307 (copyrighted 1976), everything seemed to go bust! I should mention that Neal Adams had made a big if brief return as a cover artist for DC just at this time. He did covers for Action 466 (Luthor slamming a Superman as Superkid) and 468 (the Terra Man show) and for Superman 307 & 308. 307 pictures Supergirl having smashed the bottle city of Kandor on the floor of the Fortress of Solitude, as an astonished Superman looks on. If 233, with Superman bursting Kryptonite chains, was the celebrated Adams image of "Kryptonite No More"--then this was the Adams image of "Krypton No More." For as this three-part Conway, Garcia Lopez, and Frank Springer tale unfolded, the readers and Superman learned that what they thought about Krypton and Superman's birth were lies (hm, this sounds very recent, but it happened way back in '76...). Of course, Superman had to be a bit stupid at this time not to realize all the holes in this story (hm, a Superman who is stupid and doesn't tumble to the obvious lies he's being told, sounds very recent, but it happened way back in '76). For some reason I was fooled by all of this. I guess with Conway and Garcia Lopez as seemingly the new Superman creative team, and Maggin nowhere in sight, I might have thought that DC was really trying to ram this new version of Superman down our collective throats. If 301 had made me nervous, this one had me ready for the rubber room. Somehow though, everything was resolved in the end, and the Superman myth went right back to where it was before. Then with the April issue of Superman(copyright 1977), Martin Pasko began a 36 issue unbroken run--writing the entire last three years of seventies Superman. IP: Logged |