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80's Superman - DC Comics Message Boards
Author Topic:   80's Superman
India Ink
Member
posted May 04, 2002 05:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for India Ink
ba-dump-bump

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Ink's links:

for Book of Oa--
http://www.glcorps.org/

for DC golden age sites--
http://www.best.com/~blaklion/dc_links.html

for DC indexes (Earths 1&2)--
http://www.dcindexes.com/indexes

for Superman in the Sixties--
http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/files/Forum30/HTML/007889.html

for Superman in the 70s--
http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/files/Forum30/HTML/004040.html

for 80s Superman--
http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/files/Forum30/HTML/006883.html

for Wonder Woman--
www.hometown.aol.com/linastrick/dpindex1.html

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Mattbert
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posted May 04, 2002 06:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mattbert   Click Here to Email Mattbert
I have always been a fan of pre-Crisis stories but have never picked many PC Supes stories up. I was just wondering what a few good storylines to pick up would be and the issues they are in (i.e. Luthor's new armor).

Oh, and boy are some of you longwinded! ;-)

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India Ink
Member
posted May 04, 2002 07:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for India Ink
I have to agree that I am long-winded. When I find the time to be. Of course, my posts usually result after I've sat around reading the comics and thinking about them for weeks or even months, so by then I have a lot to say. Also, having put up my reviews on these comics, it makes it a lot easier for me now to reference stuff--I don't have to go look it up, I can just copy what I said on an earlier post.

Case in point being Luthor's new armour, which first appeared ...

quote:

In Action Comics 544, June 1983, Lex Luthor returned to Lexor one last time. This awesome 45th anniversary celebration, by Bates and Swanderson, was intended to revitalize the Luthor character--George Perez even designed the new battle suit for "Luthor Unleashed"--while the second story in this super-sized edition, by Marv Wolfman and Gil Kane, rebuilt Brainiac as a Big Head robot. I do treasure this comic and it's so moving to see Luthor with his wife, Ardora, and their son (Lex, jr.), but it's too sad as Lexor is destroyed and no one survives but Luthor and Superman.

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India Ink
Member
posted May 04, 2002 07:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for India Ink
by the way, looks like I'm gonna hafta update the links in my sig--the link for DC Indexes (Earths 1 & 2) was found by using a link provided by Osgood Peabody. But looks like the DC Index is down. If Mr. Peabody is around, hopefully he knows what's up with that.

And here's my sideways happy face...

=>

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Village Idiot
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posted May 04, 2002 07:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Village Idiot   Click Here to Email Village Idiot
quote:
From India:
I do treasure this comic and it's so moving to see Luthor with his wife, Ardora, and their son (Lex, jr.), but it's too sad as Lexor is destroyed and no one survives but Luthor and Superman.

I think the most interesting part of this book is the fact that Luthor can't be good, as if his hate for Superman is like an addiction. When he's living peacefully, even successfully on Lexor, he can't resist going on nighttime rampages against the poor people of the planet. He just can't stop being bad. This makes a very stong case for the argument that Lex is irredeemable, a fact which makes Maggin's conclusion to the Superman/Luthor relationship a little more dubious.

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Pksoze
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posted May 05, 2002 01:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pksoze   Click Here to Email Pksoze
That's one of the reasons I prefer Pre Crisis Luthor to his Pos crisis counterpart VI. Watching his rage consume him was amazing..

------------------
Desmond has a barrow in the market place
Molly is the singer in a band
Desmond says to Molly - girl I like your face
And Molly says this as she takes him by the hand
Obladi oblada life goes on bra
Lala how the life goes on
Obladi oblada life goes on bra
Lala how the life goes on

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Aldous
Member
posted May 05, 2002 01:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aldous
quote:
Originally posted by Village Idiot:
I think the most interesting part of this book is the fact that Luthor can't be good, as if his hate for Superman is like an addiction. When he's living peacefully, even successfully on Lexor, he can't resist going on nighttime rampages against the poor people of the planet. He just can't stop being bad. This makes a very stong case for the argument that Lex is irredeemable, a fact which makes Maggin's conclusion to the Superman/Luthor relationship a little more dubious.

Are you talking about the short story Elliot wrote (not illustrated) where Superman and Lex ride off into the (figurative) sunset together?

It is dubious, I agree. Lex's defining emotion is hatred (for Superman). I don't mind Lex and Superman going off hand-in-hand at The End, but I would like to see just how Lex evolved to the point where he can shake hands with his enemy.

A Sunday family movie complete-change-of-character-because-I-saw-a-puppy-dog-get-run-over scenario just won't do. I want to see the evolution. A man can go through hell before abandoning the convictions of a lifetime.

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Aldous
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posted May 05, 2002 01:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aldous
Pksoze,

Please remove those lyrics immediately. That abomination of a song had no place being on a Beatles record.

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BruceWayneMan
Member
posted May 05, 2002 01:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BruceWayneMan
quote:
Originally posted by Mattbert:
I have always been a fan of pre-Crisis stories but have never picked many PC Supes stories up. I was just wondering what a few good storylines to pick up would be and the issues they are in (i.e. Luthor's new armor).

Oh, and boy are some of you longwinded! ;-)


There's a post from G-Man on 'The Ideal Lex Luthor' topic elsewhere on the Superman forum that brings up what sounds like a great, maybe even definitive Luthor story. Interestingly, it also includes LexCorp even though the novel predates the Crisis by several years.

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Aldous
Member
posted May 05, 2002 02:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aldous
quote:
Originally posted by BruceWayneMan:
There's a post from G-Man on 'The Ideal Lex Luthor' topic elsewhere on the Superman forum that brings up what sounds like a great, maybe even definitive Luthor story. Interestingly, it also includes LexCorp even though the novel predates the Crisis by several years.

He's talking about Last Son of Krypton by the aforementioned Elliot S! Maggin. It's a very good novel.

I don't know that I remember a reference to "LexCorp," but maybe it's time I re-read Last Son.

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Osgood Peabody
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posted May 05, 2002 09:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Osgood Peabody   Click Here to Email Osgood Peabody
quote:
Originally posted by India Ink:
by the way, looks like I'm gonna hafta update the links in my sig--the link for DC Indexes (Earths 1 & 2) was found by using a link provided by Osgood Peabody. But looks like the DC Index is down. If Mr. Peabody is around, hopefully he knows what's up with that.

=>


It's up again - I've found it to be intermittently up and down the last couple of weeks for some reason.

Great site - although I'm very disappointed that he took his reading library off-line. I was just starting to page through those comics, and didn't get through them all yet!

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BruceWayneMan
Member
posted May 05, 2002 12:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BruceWayneMan
quote:
Originally posted by Aldous:

I don't know that I remember a reference to "LexCorp," but maybe it's time I re-read Last Son.


Actually I'm not sure if you'd find any reference to LexCorp on second thought. I've never read it but did read an interview with Maggin in the Wizard Death of Superman Special in which he points out that he came up with LexCorp before Byrne/Wolfman did and made use of it in at least one of his stories. I had assumed it was this one when G-Man mentioned 'dummy corporations', although Maggin's "The Ghost of Superman Future" hints at a future businessman Luthor.

Things would have been so much more interesting if Luthor had become a businessman in 1986 but retained his previous criminal scientist personna - similar to the way he was cleared of all crimes after discovering the cure for cancer in the imaginary "Death of Superman". He could have used his genius to seemingly help mankind, get a full pardon, and then commit crimes but do it in such a way that although both he and Superman knows he's guilty nothing could be proved. Writers would probably resort to dumbing Superman down to post-Crisis levels, but avoiding that its still an idea.

Another element which was introduced prior to Crisis was the straining of the Superman/Batman friendship due to the events in Batman and the Outsiders 1. Again, we could have had the coldness which exists between them now but still retain the backstory of them having once been best friends. It would have added so much depth for them to have had some past event draw a wedge between them rather than depict one as permantently disturbed and the other as a permanent idiot. Could you imagine seeing them team-up, be so uncomfortable with one another that an obeservor would assume that they had never met before, and still know that several years earlier they were the best of friends?

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India Ink
Member
posted May 05, 2002 05:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for India Ink
quote:
Originally posted by Village Idiot:
I think the most interesting part of this book is the fact that Luthor can't be good, as if his hate for Superman is like an addiction. When he's living peacefully, even successfully on Lexor, he can't resist going on nighttime rampages against the poor people of the planet. He just can't stop being bad. This makes a very stong case for the argument that Lex is irredeemable, a fact which makes Maggin's conclusion to the Superman/Luthor relationship a little more dubious.

It just happens that I was reading "The Death of Luthor"/"The Condemned Superman" (Action 318/319, Nov/Dec '64) this morning. In that Luthor (having escaped to Lexor) promises his new wife, Ardora, that if Superman comes looking for him, he will not kill Superman. And this promise means so much to Lex that he doesn't kill Superman, but constructs an elaborate plot that would result in Superman's death.

Although attitudes toward Lex change the further away in time we get from 1964 (either further on or further back in time), I still prefer to think of Luthor in those 1964 terms. As someone who is driven to commit great crimes, yet someone also who has a clear code of conduct for himself. He may not believe in the codes of anyone else, but having so much belief in his own self he has to be true to that code he has made for himself. And this makes Lex a moral man.

I think of King Mark, or other Arthurian characters, who may commit horrible acts yet still belong to a chivalric code. In fact, it seems like a lot of characters in fiction (especially in movies from the 60s onward) may be outlaws yet conduct their lives according to some personal code and therefore are viewed by their audience as "heroic."

From this perspective, it becomes questionable if Luthor actually needs redemption. Since he conducts his life according to a certain morality, he has done nothing which would require redemption.

But the incidents on Lexor, from Action 544, 1983, as they result in the destruction of Luthor's adopted planet and all those who love him, might actually be something that Lex would take on as a personal responsibility. True, he shifts blame to Superman, but at the core of his being he has to know that his own actions contributed to the destruction of Lexor. This is Lex's first "crime" according to his moral code, since he was always self-justified in his previous acts. Lex in 1983, may really need redemption for himself--and that may have tipped the balance for him.

Of course, by this late stage I'm not sure if the writers were really interested in being consistent with the established myths of the Superman legend. There seems to be a desperation in the early eighties, as the inevitable end looms. And it's like one big garage sale as good ol' ideas are sold off. Kandor enlarged, Lexor destroyed, Brainiac transformed...

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garythebari
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posted May 07, 2002 10:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for garythebari   Click Here to Email garythebari
bump

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garythebari
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posted May 07, 2002 10:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for garythebari   Click Here to Email garythebari
Now let's see if I can get them in order,

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Continental Op
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posted June 02, 2002 05:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Continental Op
bump

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GernotCarl
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posted June 04, 2002 06:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GernotCarl   Click Here to Email GernotCarl
BUMP!

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India Ink
Member
posted June 10, 2002 04:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for India Ink
Over on "Superman in the 70s" I pointed out how some earlier stories influenced later stories.

Saying...

quote:
Adding to the Big E's Giant legacy, I now have these two 64 page reprint collections from the early 70s--Superman 227, G-72, June-July, 1970 and Superman 232, G-78, Dec.-Jan., 1970-71.
G-72 is a special All-Kryptonite issue, while, as I've mentioned before, G-78 is dedicated to Krypton itself.

Both provide a lot of legendary info which must've informed the later Krypton tales, and clearly (from my perspective) influenced much later stories--including a few mini-series I mentioned on the "80s Superman" thread--namely these notables:

1. World of Krypton--3 issues (July-Sept. '79); writer: Paul Kupperberg; artists: Howard Chaykin and Murphy Anderson (on 1&2), Chaykin and Chiaramonte (on 3); editor: E. Nelson Bridwell.

2. (Superman presents the) Krypton Chronicles--3 issues (Sept.-Nov. '81); writer: Bridwell; artists: Swan and Chiaramonte; editor: Julius Schwartz.

3. (Superman presents the) Phantom Zone--4 issues (Jan.-April '82); writer: Steve Gerber; artists: Gene Colan and Tony DeZuniga; editor: Dick Giordano.


I pointed out various bits of lore that appeared first in those reprinted stories which then were used in the mini-series mentioned above (reviewed some time ago on this thread). I won't go over all that again.

I then pointed out another story "The Wizard City" which is reprinted in Superman 232, G-78.

It just so happened that after reading these Giants, I was thinking about Ambush Bug, because Superman looks a little like Ambush Bug when he gets an ant-head in "The Invasion of the Super-Ants" (reprinted in Superman 227, G-72).

This made me think about the eighties Superman and his silly Action adventures. I was reminded of this post...

quote:
Originally posted by BruceWayneMan:
Quite possibly the funniest comic I've ever read is the second story in Action 570 (written by Craig Boldman, August 85) - "The Superman who Came to Dinner" as the reason for Superman's bizarre behaviour in this story isn't readily apparent.

Now during the 80s, Superman's favourite meal was boeuf bourguignon. The story begins as a man whose life Superman has just saved asks Superman to dinner as a token of his gratitude. His wife, he says, "makes the world's best boeuf bourguignon". Superman accepts to the delight of the man's wife who calls her neighbour to tell her that she'll never guess who's at her home. Suddenly, she's sucked into the living room by Superman. "I'm so sorry Helen. I was just demonstrating to Martin how I used my section breath to air-lift him ahead of the explosion's shockwaves! But it's just as well -- we don't really want a lot of neighbors coming around to spoil our nice, pleasant dinner, do we?"


and so on...

And I tried looking for that issue in my collection, but with no luck (I guess I didn't buy this one)--however I did find some Ambush Bug stories.

Including one in Action 565. I took this one out of its bag to have a look at it. And to my dismay there was "The Wizard City Warrior"--a sequel to the Wizard City story I had just read in G-78!

This one is by Mort Todd and Kurt Schaffenberger. I posted about it over on the 70s thread, and at the time said that I didn't think Mort Todd really existed, it must be an alias. I speculated that it could be E. Nelson Bridwell, but then Continental Op helped me out of my confusion with this post...


quote:
Originally posted by Continental Op:
.


By the way, RE: India Ink's aside in his "Krypton City / Wizard City" review... there definitely is a real "Mort Todd", and it is an alias, but he was NOT the great E. Nelson Bridwell. I don't think ENB ever bothered to use any aliases. It's understandable because I don't think "Todd" (his real name, or another alias was, I believe, "Michael Delle Femine") ever did any other work for DC. He was mostly a cartoonist and editor and was all over the place. He had a macabre, Charles Addams / Gahan Wilson-esque sense of humor ("Mort" and "Tod" are the Latin and German words for "Death"). He first turned up in some stories for Fantagraphics anthology books back in the mid-1980s, as I recall. Later he became editor of CRACKED magazine for a few years and more notably started up a short-lived horror/ humor black and white magazine called MONSTERS ATTACK. I remember seeing those on the stands as a kid but never buying any, and I'd love to be able to find copies now... he managed to get contributions from comics legends like Steve Ditko, Gray Morrow, Gene Colan, John Severin and Alex Toth. In the mid-1990s he was an editor at Marvel for awhile and put together some reprints of their old horror comics. The last I remember seeing anything from him was in the letter column of COMIC BOOK ARTIST magazine a while back.


Lots of other neat little things appeared in that Action 565. And then there was the Ambush Bug tale--or should that be promo?

Ambush Bug in "$ELLOOUT" (or "Manna from Mando")

Mando was a kind of paper stock that DC used for some of its series, but not the real top quality stuff that was printed on Baxter.

Along with Kieth on this 8 page jape-fest is the usual gang of idiots--wordsmith Robert Loren Fleming, inkpawed Bob Oksner, coloroso Tony Tollin, lettersetter John Costanza, and headshrinker Julius Schwartz.

The premise--and I use that word as loosely as Jennifer Lopez uses the words "I do"--is that A.B. has a mini-series coming up (one of those Mando mock-encrusted monsters) and his advertising firm is floating a couple of their approaches to shilling this rag romp to the natives.

The advertising firm is Peabody, Dicker, and Pending, by the way.

To try and describe the ensuing several pages of savagery would dull even my sharp pencilled wit.

So here's just the headlines:

In Search of Superman Blue, Superman Red!

Here Comes The Inarticulate BUG (and so on with the Kirby--Curby--burst-infested splash page)

In Search of Batman, or pound-wise and penny-foolish!

The Uh-Oh Squad with Blotto

In Search of Wonder Woman, or "Baby I'm a Want You!"

And the seventh page, in answer to "the polar bear in a snowstorm," conjures the idea of "Ambush Bug fighting Marcel Marceau in soundless outer space!"

Finally on page eight, being told that "team books sell," we see a resounding big "NO!" above the Titans Tower.

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India Ink
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posted June 14, 2002 12:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for India Ink
I hope Continental Op doesn't mind me quoting him at length, but I thought what he said over on the 70s thread regarding the "lame duck" Action Ace was so right on, I decided it should be copied onto this thread:

quote:
Originally posted by Continental Op:
...As I remember, back around 1984-1986 was a time when DC knew that the Superman mythos was going to undergo a complete overhaul after CRISIS finished, but they were still casting around for the writers to supply it, and John Byrne hadn't been officially signed up yet, let alone finalized any details of what might stay and what might go. Since none of the stories then being published would "matter" soon anyway (to their way of thinking, I suppose)it was decided to discontinue the ongoing subplots and the continued stories, essentially allowing the Superman mythos only to "mark time" while Julie ran down the clock on his editorship. The lost opportunities there have been mentioned in the "Superman in the 80s" thread, of course. But the decision to move back to shorter, standalone stories (especially in ACTION COMICS, which usually had two or even three stories per issue at this time)had another effect. It also enabled a number of writers with a fondness for the Silver Age era (both the Weisinger era AND the slightly earlier reprints from those Annuals and Giants) to have one last shot at telling stories harking back to the style they remembered from their childhood...like "Wizard City". Had the decision not been made to scrap Superman's history soon, it seems unlikely DC would have given them the chance to write in such a "throwback" style, or even to write Superman at all.

Sure, Alan Moore wrote a few Superman tales around this time, and Keith Giffen's Ambush Bug stories probably would have made Mort Weisinger hit the roof. Bates and Maggin were pretty much the same over in SUPERMAN. But this was the exception at the time, at least for the pages of ACTION. Longtime fan Mark Waid got his crack at breaking into DC with his only stories of the pre-Crisis Supes. But more likely, the plots and dialogue were reminiscent of the Superman tales from the late 1940s to mid-1950s, even pre-Weisinger era. Alien invasions were essentially harmless, and thwarted within a few pages. Bridwell and Rozakis, though their style didn't change much from their Bronze Age work, brought back reminders of the goofier, gentler 1950s, like Professor Potter and the less murderous Toyman. Writer Craig Boldman apparently became a favorite of Schwartz's at the time, and he seemed heavily influenced by the late 40s to mid-50s Supes. Boldman's scripts are basically comedies... in fact, Superman sometimes seemed to be living out the screwball comedies of the 1940s and 1950s film world, as played by Cary Grant in a cape. One story featured a charity contest where people on the street had to guess a feat that Superman couldn't do and, for a few pages, he did things like hiccup while standing on his head (and using his powers secretly to thwart pickpockets in the crowd, of course). Another had an ordinary hot dog vendor daydreaming the wacky ways he would use Superman's powers. Yet another had J. Wilbur Wolfingham, the W.C. Fields-esque con artist of the 1940s era, return, and sell the planet Earth to an alien spaceman with a Buck Rogers-ish outfit and crew-cut hairstyle. The word for Boldman's stories is "zany". I think the influence of the pre-Weisinger era Superman (and for that matter, the Fawcett Captain Marvel stories) is plainly seen.

Not that I'm arguing these stories are classics or anything. At a time when CAMELOT 3000, the Wolfman / Perez NEW TEEN TITANS, Frank Miller's RONIN and the like were what DC was pushing, they were probably sales suicide, even on the newsstands where kids were still buying most of the comics. I'm just pointing out that I think the "Wizard City" story was part of a brief, and intentional, trend in the Superman line at the time. Some of those stories are almost painful to read, and some are a lot of fun, but I think they were definitely part of a conscious decision to let some new writers have one last crack at revisiting their childhood memories of Superman while they still had time...


This has put a much more positive spin on these books for me. It's actually made me see the stories in a whole new light. It was, in truth, a time when writers could write the Superman they wanted. They were free. That's something, given usually writers have to fit the character to the editor's perceptions.

Take for instance Legends of the Dark Knight. This is a book that SHOULD allow the writers and artists of any given arc to do whatever they please with Batman--they can do Dick Sprang send-ups or Carmine Infantino homages--write about Evol Ekdal or the Duc D'Orterre. You'd think! But fact is they don't. Most have seemed to try and fit Batman into the Frank Miller etched design. Even when Goodwin was editor!

It could be that the writers really only want to do this one kind of Batman. But I'm thinking that they feel some pressure to try and make their Batman fit the prescribed form--what the kids want to read these days.

But how different were the Legends of the "Lame Duck" Action Ace!

Essentially, Schwartz was like Vonnegut at the end of Breakfast of Champions setting his characters free. Or rather Schwartz set the characters under his aegis free to be used as any writer saw fit.

That's a beautiful thing. And it's made me want to seek out all those issues I passed up because they gave me a pain back then. Whenever I spot one of these missing issues at a reasonable price at some convention or comic shop, I'll be sure to pick it up!

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Continental Op
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posted June 15, 2002 11:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Continental Op
India--

Glad to hear I got you interested in these last few years of the mid-80s Supes. Like I said, they're not all classics, so caveat emptor, but they are something kind of unique.

I don't know how many of these you have, but I would like to point out a few issues I especially remember from this period that I think are well worth getting at a decent price.

ACTION #561 --"The Great Toyman Trivia Contest!" (Bob Rozakis / Kurt Schaffenberger/
Dennis Jensen) Goofy, old-fashioned Toyman story with great Schaffenberger art. Also "The Past and Future Superman!" (E. Nelson Bridwell / Wayne Boring (!)/ Dave Hunt) Red Kryptonite splits Superman into an inexperienced young Superboy and a far-future Superman with different powers.

ACTION #564--"Jimmy Olsen---Blob!" (Craig Boldman / Howard Bender / Pablo Marcos) In a story straight out of the zany pre-Kirby OLSEN series, Jimmy drinks a bad batch of Elastic Lad serum and becomes a shapeless blob. Also a Mxyzptlk story and an Ambush Bug story--all the early Bug stories are well worth getting, of course. The Giffen cover to this issue alone is worth the price.

DC COMICS PRESENTS #87 / SUPERMAN #414 (Elliot S! Maggin / Curt Swan / Anderson & Williamson) "The Origin of Superboy-Prime!" and "Revenge Is Life--Death To Superman!" Maggin is really cooking here in the home stretch, proving undeniably that the Silver Age trappings were still relevant past the 60s and can still be used in a moving and serious way without destroying continuity. Maggin shows us what it would be like for a Superboy growing up normal in the "real" world. The two-parter unfolds with a terrific sense of both wonder and dread. He ends it all with a truly chilling scene, where Superman must return Supergirl's corpse to her parents on Kandor's new home planet. Anyone who says that the Earth-One Superman was hopelessly corny, campy and boring should be forced to memorize this one.

ACTION #573--- "Sale of the Century!" (Boldman / Schaffenberger / Oksner) W.C. Fields-lookalike J. Wilbur Wolfingham "sells" the entire planet Earth to an alien but is shocked to find out that his "mark" has the power to claim the purchase. Superman intervenes. Hilarity ensues, sort of.

DC COMICS PRESENTS #71--"The Mark of Bizarro!" (Bridwell / Swan / Hunt) Bizarro Number One am create some Bizarro-villains for Bizarro-JLA to fight. Him create Bizarro-Amazo, who am give super-powers to ordinary people instead of TAKE powers from super-heroes like real Amazo. Bizarro am need Superman's stupid Earth logic to defeat big menace. Bizarro-Op say, this story am no fun at all and NOT good.

DC COMICS PRESENTS ANNUAL #3--(Roy Thomas / Joey Cavalieri / Gil Kane) Sivana steals the Shazam lightning from Captain Marvel and turns himself into General Sivana, mighty enough to take on the Earth-One and Earth-Two Supermen. Heh-heh-hehhhh!

ACTION #577 (Keith Giffen / Robert Loren Fleming / Bob Oksner) "CAITIFF--Last of the Vampires!" Giffen gets serious as Superman wrestles with some moral dilemmas and confronts a monstrous, but pitiful, villain.

ACTION #579--"Prisoners of Time!" (RJM Lofficier / Giffen / Oksner) Supes goes back in time to ancient Gaul and confronts a thinly disguised version of the Belgian cartoon hero, Asterix. I grew up reading Asterix and this is a nice tribute.

DC COMICS PRESENTS #84--(Bob Rozakis / Jack Kirby(!)/ Alex Toth(!!) / Greg Theakston) Supes teams up with the Challengers of the Unknown to battle a Kryptonian criminal launched into space before discovery of the Phantom Zone. Lots of fun!!

DC COMICS PRESENTS #85--"The Jungle Line!" (Alan Moore / Rick Veitch / Al Williamson) Swamp Thing rescues Supes from a case of nearly fatal Kryptonian Scarlet Fever. What happens when a guy who can split the entire planet open as easily as an apple is suffering from violent paranoid delusions?

SUPERMAN #419--"The Man Who Murdered Evil!" (Maggin / Swan / Hunt) Sort of a thematic sequel to Maggin's "Miracle Monday" novel. Superman's arrival on Earth as an incomparable force for good causes Satan to create an ongoing line of agents who are pure evil. Some disturbing implications in Maggin's last great Supes story.

SUPERMAN #421--"Trapped in Imp-TV!" (Bates / Swan / Hunt) Not Cary Bates at his finest, but worth it to see Superman and Mr. Mxyzptlk trapped in a ridiculous parody of Eighties music videos. (Warning: Perry White in leather glam-rock outfit!)

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India Ink
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posted June 15, 2002 01:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for India Ink
Thanks for the recommendations, I have to go through my mid-eighties books to be sure of just what I have before I go searching for the missing issues, but from your list I know that I have

ACTION #573
DC COMICS PRESENTS ANNUAL #3
ACTION #577 [I think]
ACTION #579
DC COMICS PRESENTS #85

Essentially I was not very attentive to the Superman books from the last half of 1984 to roughly the first half of 1986, and seemed to just buy issues haphazardly (no doubt because I was moving around a lot, had very little income, and was dealing with personal dramas at the time).

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India Ink
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posted June 15, 2002 07:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for India Ink
In fact, I was in such dire straits in 1985 that I gathered together a stack of some of my most prized comics and went down to the Comicshop with them (about thirty comics I think). I showed them to Ron, believing I could get at least a hundred dollars for the lot. He looked through all of them, fairly rapidly, then said he didn't really need any of them but he picked out a few (those that I knew to be worth the most) and said that he was willing to take those off my hands and named a very small amount that he would give me for them (which would just about buy me lunch).

I was chastened. Immediately I seemed to understand that the small value these collectables might have on the market could not possibly compare to the great value I put on them. I resolved then and there to never be reduced to selling off my "babies."

Meanwhile, there was some comic geek lurking about in the store during this whole episode, and after I left the store (still walking in a funk, unaware of my surroundings) he came up behind me. For a moment I didn't comprehend what he was on about, but then I understood that he wanted to buy these comics off of me, even if Ron didn't. However, my lesson had already sunk in and I wouldn't have let this person have my comics for any sane amount of money.

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Aldous
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posted June 16, 2002 01:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aldous
quote:
Posted by India Ink:
Meanwhile, there was some comic geek lurking about in the store during this whole episode, and after I left the store (still walking in a funk, unaware of my surroundings) he came up behind me. For a moment I didn't comprehend what he was on about, but then I understood that he wanted to buy these comics off of me, even if Ron didn't. However, my lesson had already sunk in and I wouldn't have let this person have my comics for any sane amount of money.

**WHEW!**

I thought you were about to say he mugged you and stole your comics.

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India Ink
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posted June 18, 2002 04:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for India Ink
Several times in various discussions people have mentioned two Annuals but I don't think anyone has talked about them at length. So I thought I would take on the challenge.

The Annuals are actually linked as both are written by Elliot S! Maggin (as well as for other reasons which eventually become clear), these Annuals being:

DC Comics Presents Annual (Superman introduces Superwoman) no. 2, 1983.
Superman Annual no. 10, 1984.

The DCCP '83 Annual introduced Superwoman--a "new" creation of Maggin's (I understand DC wanted to protect their trademark to the name "Superwoman"). On the cover as drawn by Gil Kane she certainly looks dynamic--Kane has seemed to combine elements of design from Green Lantern, The Atom, and Batgirl. She has the sort of hourglass shape around the torso in the cut of her costume as with Gil Kane's Green Lantern design. She has some of the same blue and red elements in her mask, gloves and boots as in Gil's Atom design. And in the way her red hair flows out at the back of her cowl and her blue cape spreads out behind her she has some of Infantino's Batgirl design.

The 41 page story inside ("The Last Secret Identity!") is illustrated by Keith Pollard and Mike DeCarlo, who unfortunately can't quite achieve that same dynamic look (given both these guys were still young up and comers while Kane was a seasoned pro, it's understandable that they were not yet up to that level).

Our story begins at Columbia University in the year 2862, where Prof. Kristin Wells is teaching a class in Early American History (1763-2100). In this class students study history by actually viewing it with their desk screen timescopes. Today's subject is Superwoman who remains an enigma still in the 29th Century. The class discussion leads to the proposition that this mysterious heroine may have had futuristic devices in her employ. The class encourage Prof. Wells to journey back to the 20th century and investigate.

Soon enough, Wells is in the Daily Planet newsroom of 1983, and attaches herself to Lois Lane as a typist for Lane's new book. In her private investigations, Wells finds a Superwoman costume in Lois Lane's closet and jumps to the conclusion that Lois will be Superwoman.

Jimmy Olsen tries to make time with Kristin but she seems disinterested and spends more time with Clark. In hushed whispers they talk--for Clark has met her before (in the novel Miracle Monday).

Meanwhile, approaching Earth is King Kosmos. Like Wells, Kosmos is from the future, but from an alternate timeline. Kosmos sought to make himself supreme ruler of his homeworld, but when overthrown warped through the dimensions of time and space to arrive in our timeline.

When Kosmos attacks the Earth with blasts from his spaceship, Clark changes into Superman and goes into action. Kristin knows that Kosmos is capable of defeating Superman, and she believes that Superwoman should be coming to the assistance of the Man of Steel. But when she insistst that Lois become Superwoman, Lois hasn't a clue, even when Kristin pulls out the super-costume from Lane's closet. Lois tells Kristin that that costume is for Linda Danvers (Clark's cousin) who is supposed to arrive for a party at Morgan Edge's house that night.

Kristin then privately believes that it must be Linda (aka Supergirl) who will be Superwoman. Clark surprises her when he returns to the offices, having travelled back from the sixth century (and Arthurian Britain) where he was dispatched by King Kosmos.

That night Kristin continues to avoid Jimmy's advances at Morgan Edge's party. And Prof. Wells is surprised again when she sees Linda arrive in a different costume (Linda didn't want to wear the Superwoman costume because it would have hid her lovely face, and seriously prevented her from possibly hitting it off with any romantic prospects).

Kosmos' advanced technology detects the presence of Superman somewhere in the sector of Metropolis where Edge's mansion stands. A beam directed at the mansion nullifies everyone inside, rendering them unconscious, including Clark, but not Wells. Kristin then realizes that it is SHE who will be Superwoman! She retrieves the unused super-costume and changes into the Woman of Tomorrow!

She flies off to take on King Kosmos while various Justice League members are being blasted by his advanced beams of nullifying rays. As Kosmos transmits his demands for the surrender of the U.S. of A. over all broadcast media, Superwoman confronts Kosmos and announces "Let History Bear Witness that No American Ever Had to Bow to a Tyrant!"--words which will be remembered for centuries to come.

And in Morgan Edge's home, Clark Kent revives and flies into action as Superman once more, in time to catch Superwoman, knocked out by Kosmos, falling Earthward from the spaceship.

Superwoman tells Superman that Kosmos has sent a nuclear reactor satellite out of orbit to tumble toward Dallas, Texas. She tells the Man of Steel to bring the satellite through a hole in space that she has made with her advanced technology. Superman and the nuclear active satellite tumble into another section of intergalactic space where the device explodes safely.

Flying back through the cosmos to Earth, Superman sees a date and place written in the sky--"Supe--Washington D.C. April 14, 1864--Kris."

King Kosmos has travelled back in time in his spaceship to moments after the assassination of President Lincoln, when pandemonium was in the streets of Washington. Superwoman and Superman manage to defeat the schemes of King Kosmos again, but now he flees through a space-time portal with Superwoman on his heels. And Superman close behind--

quote:

Again, Superman does the most difficult feat his powers allow him to do...to muster star-born power to crack the barriers of space and time--using only sinew and untiring muscle to accomplish what the two he follows can do using millennia of advanced technology...

Superman dislodges from King Kosmos' grasp the space-time navigator (a remote control device), but as Supe grabs hold of the despot Kosmos pops out, disappearing into the myriad pathways of time.

Next day, Clark Kent arrives at the Daily Planet offices with an exclusive Superwoman interview. In his office, Kristin is waiting to say good-bye as she must return to the 29th century. Jimmy spots the freckle-faced young woman and just when he's about to speak to her, she plants a big kiss on Clark. Then walking out of the offices Kristin dematerializes, travelling back to the future.

After Prof. Wells finishes her latest lecture, telling of her time travels, a student comes up to her at the end of class and asks why she avoided Jimmy Olsen. Answering the young woman, Wells reveals that her great grandmother was the daughter of James Olsen IV!

At the back of this comic, in the text page, Julie Schwartz decided to give the page over to a letter he had got from Maggin concerning this story.

The "Superman Thru the Ages" homepage provides this link where you can read the letter in its entirety...
http://theages.superman.nu/maggin/superwoman.html

...and I've cut n pasted some of it here...

quote:

Well, if you haven't already read the story and you're still with me you're probably one of those people who hates surprises and there's no reasoning with you, so come along.

Julie, I hope you recognize one of the new characters in this story. You've read the name "Kristin Wells" before. She was the nineteen- or twenty-year-old graduate student at Columbia University in the twenty-ninth century who was a major character in my novel, Superman! Miracle Monday. You said you liked the book, so I thought you might like seeing one of its pivotal characters again.

In the book, Kristin is a history student who is so fascinated with one of the unsolved mysteries of Superman's twentieth century that she makes a journey into the past - on a foundation grant, of course, not a student's budget - and finds out the secret of the interplanetary holiday, Miracle Monday. Not only does she discover the joyful holiday's secret origin, but she figures prominently into that origin herself. I continued that theme in Kristin's life with this story by making her come back - as an eminent, seasoned professor now, not a callow student - in order to learn the yet undiscovered secret identity of the mysterious "Superwoman" who appeared in Metropolis in 1983. In this story she discovered, to her own mixed emotions, that Superwoman was none other than a history professor from the twenty-eighth century named Kristin Wells. You'll remember, also, that at the novel's end, the memory of her presence in the twentieth century was wiped from the minds of everyone on Earth except for Superman. So Kristin and Superman are old friends, even though in this story she's a "new girl" in town.

Kristin is not actually as new as she seems. In a previous incarnation, she was a character named Joanne Jaime. That was in one of the last Superman stories I did for you years ago - in a previous incarnation myself - called "The Miracle of Thirsty Thursday." Joanne was a history student from the future who is dismayed when she comes to the past - our time, that is - to investigate a historic event and finds that all the people she meets are other historians doing research along with her. She finds no local color, only observers like herself to pollute the broth. I refined Joanne into Kristin for the novel, and I've tried to make her consistent and engaging for this story. You said you wanted a different sort of new character for your Superwoman, Julie, so here she is. I hope you like her, because I think I'm in love with her.

As for King Kosmos, he's completely new with this story, and he's a baddie all right; a dictator who was overthrown from the rule of a devastated Earth-like world who comes to our planet looking for a place to rule. He has the ability, like that of Superwoman, to negate dimensional protocols and travel among various times or parallel universes at will. Superman can do that sort of thing also, of course, but it's about the most difficult thing he knows how to do. For Kosmos it's as easy as setting a course and pressing a button. If you say so, he'll be back as well.

I wanted to mention one more interesting thing about my novel, Miracle Monday, if you don't mind. This is something I never really made much of or told anyone about, but for me, at least, Miracle Monday is a real holiday. In the book it's the third Monday of every May. On that day, according to the book, resort owners on the glaciers of Uranus raise ski-lift tickets for the influx of tourists. Teamsters driving slow-moving cargo transports to Earth from mining operations in the asteroid belt get drunk and silly like sailors crossing the Equator for the first time. In honor of Superman's chosen profession, even journalists can spend the holiday with their families. There are laughter, reflection, public celebration with barbecues and holographic light shows all over the solar system, merriments of all sorts. It's a big holiday. As it happens, here in the real world, I received my first copy of Superman: Miracle Monday in the mail from my editor at Warner Books on May 18, the third Monday in the month of May, 1981. It was a special day, totally coincidental, and I've never really told anyone that before. Considering what Superman did in the book on that day, it was a holiday worth celebrating for a long time, so along with my birthday, Einstein's birthday and the first day of summer, Miracle Monday is a day that I will probably continue to set apart.

So read, enjoy if you're of a mind to enjoy, and have a good day, old friend. Be in touch and...

Be happy,
Elliot





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India Ink
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posted June 18, 2002 08:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for India Ink
The early eighties were cruel with kindnesses.

Here was Elliot S! Maggin coming back like a camp counsellor to his summer job, just to give us a taste of what he used to do on a monthly schedule in the Superman books back in the middle of the seventies. As if to play with that proverbial phrase that served as title for one of his best Clark Kent tales--"You can't go home!"

But it wasn't just Maggin who seemed to take a Marquis de Sade's pleasure in torturing us poor readers. There was also Murphy Clyde Anderson. Savagely he flaunted his inking talent--turning in superb embellishments of Curtis Douglas Swan's pencils--whenever the mood suited him, leaving us to wait for months or years before he again threw us a well delineated bone.

Starved we were. Starved I tell you. And so when an amazing adventure like the 1984 Superman Annual presented itself we didn't know whether to cry or cheer. Were rare events like this a cause for hope or despair? Were the gods truly cruel or merely infrequently kind?

The Eduardo Barreto cover, with a generous amount of Kirby Krackle (ol' Jack musta gotten rich selling that stuff to young artists), displays a mighty Superman holding his sword on high, as people in the background scramble to flee him.

That sword aspect of the cover and the story had an impact on all us readers, and I think many of us remember the tale as "The Sword of Superman." But just as the first Star Wars movie wasn't called "The Light Sabre of Luke Skywalker," this one also had another name. The official title on page 3 is "The Day the Cheering Stopped!" (written by Maggin, pencilled by Swan, inked by Anderson, lettered by Ben Oda, colored by Gene d'Angelo (who I believe was one of the longest serving creative people on Superman, I hope Gene is getting a nice pension for all those years of service), and edited by Julius Schwartz, 40 pages).

The first five pages are an example of the considerable prose writing talent that Elliot Maggin employed. My sore fingers reject the notion of actually transcribing all those perfectly formed sentences, yet it's impossible to otherwise suggest the level of literacy in these narrative captions. I'd tell anyone who has happened to click onto this post that they should find the actual comic and read it for themselves. But how much chance of that is there? 41 pages long I don't know this story will ever be reprinted (and given how badly reproduced Anderson's inks have been in some DC reprint books, maybe that's not all to the bad).

The fact is I can't communicate the excellence of the narrative and so I won't even try. It's good, take my word on it. It talks about the legend of Superman shared throughout the cosmos on many planets and how the actual phonetic unit <SU-PER-MAN> is pronounced the same everywhere by everyone. It talks about the origin of Superman and the origin of the universe. At times, it's positively biblical.

And after the Big Bang or the Genesis, however you want to call it, that created all matter in the universe, there was "one piece of primeval matter formed in the great creation that through some quirk of blind chance or some miraculous circumstance...took a shape that one day became not that of an unidentified piece of molten sludge...but through the foundry of space and the temperance of time--untouched by living hands--took the form of a sword...and came to be known--through that selfsame quirk or miracle--in millions of languages across the stars as...The Sword of Superman!"

And also by a quirk of destiny, the Star-Child also came to be called "Superman" <SU-PER-MAN>. Like out of a bible story, when the young superboy was choosing the garments of his heroic enterprise, his mother had created one design (like the block 'S' of the famous Superman logo), but her husband Jonathan in a dream had seen this other symbol (the same symbol which is pictured on the hilt of the Sword of Superman). "You know what a dreamer your father is!" "We should all be dreamers like that!"

And now the main body of the story begins. Jimmy goes off on the WGBS news copter, piloted by one Barbara, to interview Oswald Mandias on the billionaire's yacht. Jim promises Barbara dinner for providing him with transportation.

Days pass, Olsen's absence isn't noticed, but on another copter trip Barbara mentions to Perry and Clark that Jimmy owes her a hot meal.

A word to Clark produces a deed from Superman. Meanwhile Lana is reporting for GBS on the flight of the space shuttle Magellan which will launch a new communications satellite for Mandias Industries. When Superman doesn't find Mandias or Olsen or the yacht in Metropolis harbour, he heads for the Kennedy Space Center.

X-Ray eyes reveal Jimmy bound and gagged below decks on the Mandias yacht off the Florida coast. Jimmy tells his pal of the billionaire's plan to stowaway aboard the space shuttle. And soon enough Superman is on board the shuttle. Mandias has hidden inside the satellite capsule but without warning he awakens in a burst energy and cracks his way of his capsule hiding place. Engaging Superman in battle in airless space, the powerful adversary causes the Man of Steel's eardrums to vibrate so as to communicate his message.

For this is not really Oswald Mandias, but a returned King Kosmos. Using his strange powers, Kosmos inflicts great pain upon the Man of Tomorrow. As Superman, almost lifeless, falls Earthward it chances that the Sword of Superman is following its own path through the cosmos. And as if predestined it arrives in the hand of Superman, reawakening him.

Returning to Earth, under his own power, Superman is bewildered to find that no one recognizes him, everyone flees from him in fear. Superman tracks down Kosmos/Mandias being interviewed on the TV by Olsen. Mandias is announcing that he will address Congress the next day proposing that all world governments turn over their power to him so that he might martial his forces against a great alien threat to our planet.

At the studio, Superman again confronts Mandias/Kosmos and is again defeated. Left unconscious in the park, when Superman comes to, a crowd of people are staring at the strange alien creature they see, not recognizing him as their saviour.

Confused, Superman escapes to the moon to ponder his situation, studying the strange sword in his hands. He recalls one time on another planet, when saving a young boy, the child recognized the S shield on Superman's chest as being the same as that on the hilt of the Sword of Superman which they studied about in school.

The next day Superman enters congress, where Mandias/Kosmos is speaking. Holding his sword high, yet again the Man of Steel challenges Kosmos. Superman has used self-hypnosis to convince himself that everyone in congress is cheering him on, although in reality they are jeering him. In this way he supports his confidence in himself. Using the Sword he blasts Kosmos with a wierd energy which seems to reveal King Kosmos for who he truly is, as well as Superman for who he truly is.

Out on the Washington mall, the opponents engage in another rough and tumble contest. But, with the power of the Sword this time, Superman is victorious, and as he stands over the defeated Mandias/Kosmos the spirit of King Kosmos leaves the body of Mandias. Mandias is afraid that the Man of Steel will kill him, but Superman stops the sword from delivering the deathly blow. Oswald Mandias, when questioned, can't remember anything that has transpired for the last few days.

As Superman holds his Sword, he feels its power gather, inhabiting his whole being. Such power as he has never posessed before. Then yelling in large words-- "I...DON'T...WANT IT!"--his body shines with power and then all normalcy is returned.

"I knew the whole history...I mean--everything--the whole universe! I was starting to expand...spread over the winds themselves as--as a kind of all-seeing protector...but I decided instead to take back my life--and deal with the evil that falls across the vulnerable world...in my own way--for awhile!"

And so Superman throws his Sword back into the starry night of space.

Epilogue: A travelling storyteller feasts well at the table of his host, as repayment for the great tales he has told to his attentive audience. A child at the table asks again for the story of the Sword of Superman, and eagre to please a child, he tells again of the Sword. How it ever followed its course through the void, beyond the ability of anyone to capture, until it found its way to its namesake, who

"when he was about to become one with his universe--an immortal..." heard a voice that only he could hear--"You have done well, my son. You have earned your name, your future is your own to make. Your greatness among living things is assured. So shall it ever be."

And so the sword now continues on its flight through the heavens until its owner should decide to retrieve it or to follow it on its journey "to Eternity!"

---

In this Epilogue, the child calls the wandering vagabond story teller "Old-Timer." And as illustrated by Swan and Anderson, with his pinkish skin and red shirt, he appears to be a Guardian.
And not just any Guardian, but the Guardian called the "Old-Timer" who followed Hal Jordan and Oliver Queen on their travels years before.

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